Orthodox Jews Protest Against Israel in NYC

Thousands of orthodox (Torah) Jews have gathered in NYC to hold a massive protest against the zionist state of Israel because… it oppresses (horrendous suffering) the observant Jews in Israel by demanding that they, too, perform military service.

You can’t make this stuff up.

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  1. Leslie Bravery June 16, 2013 at 12:40 am #

    Are you saying that Neturei Karta is “as immoral as the Israeli Army? Please reply.

    • Ariadna Theokopoulos June 16, 2013 at 1:20 am #

      Not at all. I would not even know how to compare and quantify the immorality of the two Janus-like faces of Jewish supremacism:
      one Judaic (religious) and the other Judeo-zionist. To my knowledge, despite the hand-wringing of Neturei Karta on the subject of Palestinians suffering, in almost 70 years of the existence of the State for Jews, Naturei Karta have never animated themselves to hold a protest rally of tens of thousands of Jews as they did now to protest the State for Jews’s demanding military service from religious jews, and NOT only Neturei Karta Jews buy all those orthodox Jews of other religious shades and stripes who “study and pray for victory.”
      To my knowledge Neturei Karta never protested the massive importation of Jews from all over the world into Palestine, only the formal existence of the state that according to them, should have awaited the arrival of Messiah.
      I see nothing moral in the Neturei Karta’s fervent belief in Judaic supremacy and even less in their self-serving rally.

      • Leslie Bravery June 16, 2013 at 2:28 am #

        I can only go by Neturei Karta’s declared position and principles concerning its affirmation of the total illegitimacy of Israel and the absolute rights of the native Palestinian people. This position is far stronger than most pro-Palestinian campaigners would support and light years away from the so-called two-state solution. You say in your critique of my article:
        Freedom of thought and religion should be untouchable in any society we like to call civilised. Jews should be as free to cherish their supremacist beliefs as scientologists are to consider themselves ‘thetans’ as long as such beliefs do not fuel their group behaviour into concerted activities that are to the detriment of others, as long as they do not “celebrate their symptoms at the expense of others”
        That’s the point. Whatever Neturei Karta believes about the ‘chosenness’ of the Jews they certainly reject violence, especially power politics, and they believe in justice. Just as Nazism eventually became unfashionable in Germany, there is no doubt that the same fate will befall Zionism in the West. As for ‘chosenness’ or any other religious or philosophical belief, engagement with humanitarian movements modifies belief. Fanatics are left isolated. I don’t know about events in the USA but in the UK Neturei Karta stands side-by-side with pro-Palestinian activists at demonstrations and rallies. Here’s what Neturei Karta says about the rights of the Palestinian people and the duty of everyone to respect them – it is the very antithesis of supremacism:
        The Palestinian Issue – Questions & Answers
        Neturei Karta International
        Series B – Pamphlet No. 3
        http://www.nkusa.org/books/pamphlets/pamphlet3.cfm

        Q – Is it true that Neturei Karta International supports Palestinian sovereignty over all of the Holy Land?
        A – Our answer is, unequivocally, yes. However, this answer requires some prior explanation. We are an anti-Zionist, Orthodox organisation. Our quarrel with Zionism exists on many levels. First, by establishing a state in Palestine which is forbidden according to Jewish law, it denies the Divine punishment inherent in the Jewish people’s exile and seeks to remedy what is essentially a spiritual state by this worldly means. Second, it has devoted much of its energy to the uprooting of traditional Torah faith. Third, it has committed a grievous moral evil in its treatment of the Palestinian people.

        Q – What do you advocate?
        A – We demand, without compromise, the peaceful dismantling of the Israeli state. As to whether or how many Jews may remain there once this process is completed, that decision is totally up to the Palestinian leaders and people.

        Q – Aren’t you afraid what this might result in for the Jews living in the Land?
        A – Actually, we fear far more for the Jews in the present hopeless situation. After 53 years, five wars, endless terror and counter terror, innocent civilians dead on both sides, there is no solution in sight. Both the Israeli right and left have failed miserably to rectify this situation. We are offering an alternative to what is clearly a tragic experiment.

        Q – But don’t Jews deserve a homeland?
        A – No Torah faithful Jew in the 1900 years of our people’s exile believed that we should seek to reclaim the land by military means. Instead, they believed that at the end of days, when the Creator chooses to redeem all mankind then all peoples will join in the worship of Him. This will not require the subjugation or dispossession of peoples. It will be a time of universal brotherhood with its spiritual in the Holy Land. Until then the Jewish people have a particular task in exile.

        Q – And what might that be?
        A – To accept in faith their exile. And, by word and deed, quietly and unobtrusively, to act as moral and spiritual paragons. And, in general to attend to G-d’s service via Torah study, prayer and good deeds.

        Q – How do you view the Palestinian people?
        A – They are the victims of the Zionist movement’s moral blindness and obstinate refusal to take into account the existence of peoples other than themselves. The Palestinian people have a right to their homeland. And they have a right to financial restitution for property loss and damages inflicted upon them over the past decades.

        Q – What efforts have you brought to this cause?
        A – We have frequently published statements in support of Palestinian claims and in sympathy with their suffering. We have joined Palestinians in protest against the abuses that they have been subject to. We have, in general, attempted to maintain a public presence in both the Jewish and Islamic world in order that the venerable tradition of Jewish, Torah based anti-Zionism be not forgotten.

        Q – What is your opinion on the peace process, Oslo accords and similar efforts?
        A – Any Jewish support for the suffering Palestinian people is a step in the right direction practically and evidence of a moral conscience which every Jew should have. However, we believe that all these plans, although they may be well intentioned, are doomed to failure. Jews are forbidden to exercise political sovereignty over the Holy Land. They are called upon to seek peace with all men. The Zionist enterprise is metaphysically doomed to moral and practical failure.

        Q – What should be the Jewish approach to the Islamic world?
        A – Jews are called upon to deal ethically and honestly with all men. This is our task as a “kingdom of priests and a holy nation.” Zionism has misled many Jews into acts of aggression against the Palestinian people. Therefore, it behoves all Jews, as best we can, to rectify this situation by seeking peace, reconciliation and dialogue when dealing with Palestinian people and all Islamic nations. This is one of the great spiritual tests confronting the Jewish people – to establish a moral relationship with their Islamic brethren.
        Q – Realistically speaking, does your programme have any chance of implementation?
        A – First, the Creator runs the world and with Him all things are possible. Second, there is a tremendous sense of disillusionment and exhaustion among Jews world wide with the Israeli state and Zionism in general. Many realise that following Zionist principles leads to one dead end after another. They are longing for another solution. Our solution, which is simply the ancient tradition of the Torah, is appearing increasingly plausible to many and may, in the not too distant future, with the help of the Creator, carry the day until then we hope and pray that no more innocent blood be shed, be it Jewish or Arab. We yearn for the day when many will come to realise that the only real path to peace lies in the Jewish people returning to their true task in exile, the undivided service of G-d and devotion to morality, integrity and honesty.

        • Ariadna Theokopoulos June 16, 2013 at 6:33 pm #

          Leslie, I am not going to say “I know where you’re coming from because I used to believe the same thing” so, NOT having said that (…) let me just tell you that I have long stopped considering the Neturei Karta’s beef with Israel anything other than an internal Jewish matter of no consequence whatsoever–NONE– for Palestinians.
          In fact I consider their position a Supremacism on the Installment Plan: the downpayment is having the idea that Jews, with the Torah in their teeth, are swimming towards Righteousness and “nations”should follow in their tow because “g-d” has chosen them, and the final reward is the Kingdom of Israel as soon as Moshach shows up. Until then we should hold our breath because it could happen in 100 years or tomorrow (wise Orthodox rabbis are thick on the ground, especially in Brooklyn and a heifer of the signal color could be born any day now).
          There is also, subtly implied in the gratitude of non-Jews to NK’s refusal to accept the formal existence of the State for Jews (NOT its actual existence), the unspoken implication that the Palestinians cause is strengthened if it some Jews give it utterance, which offends me.
          Finally, the NK’s rejection of Israel falls woefully short by attributing all its evils to zionism. It needs emphasizing that Israel is the contrivance of Jewish power, whose evils predate Israel by centuries. I fail to be impressed by NK’s expressions of compassion for Palestinian suffering. A supremacist is a supremacist is a supremacist.

          Palestinians would be ill served by continuing to draw any hope from any Jewish support of their struggle. To say, as you do, that NK’s position “is far stronger than most pro-Palestinian campaigners” is to compare two plugged coins and decide that the one with a smaller hole is better. Neither is any good. Palestinians should shed all the outside “support” that eventually invariably places Jewish/Israeli interests above their own.

  2. fmo June 16, 2013 at 11:20 pm #

    At 8:20 mins, an intro then;
    “We have to proclaim, a struggle against the (Zionist) Amalek. We say to the Zionists: We have no connection with you! We don’t need you. They threaten us with imprisonment, they will stop giving us money… they want to scare us. We hearby proclaim, in the name of tens of thousands of Jews: We don’t need your money! We will go to jail! We will go to sanctify Gods name in public. God is our king! There have been times in history, when Jews went like sheep to the slaughter, but we have never forgotten Gods name! We send a message to all the students in the Holy Land, in the name of thousands of yeshiva students all over the world: “Fortunate are you, mighty warriors!” Do not fear or lose courage, for God is with you. God forbids to join the army. Besides all the sins involved, it is fundamentally a rebellion against Gods kingdom. The mere existence of the state of israel itself is fundamentally a transgression of the Oaths, on the prohibition of the rebelling against the nations, and against the three cardinal sins of the Torah, for which the worst punishments can be meted out. (Zionists) take your hands of the Holy Land! We are in exile. God sent us into exile. We don’t understand exile, but we believe in God and we believe whatever He does, He does for our good.”
    .
    This “firey” little speech from the article video speaks volumes of the tribal schizoid mentality of the jewish collective. It doesn’t make any sense and raises more questions than it answers. For instance, how long have the NK been accepting “gelt” from these zionist “transgressors of the Oaths”?

    • fmo June 17, 2013 at 1:15 am #

      just a thought;
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSvqciNc9jY

    • Ariadna Theokopoulos June 18, 2013 at 12:01 pm #

      “how long have the NK been accepting “gelt” from these zionist “transgressors of the Oaths”?

      Excellent point, fmo.
      It has just occurred to me that COMPARTMENTALIZED MORALITY is something Jews have developed as a means to accommodate their schizoid group identity

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